Interview Conducted by Mark Menghi
Recorded on the Zoom H2
April 30th, 2008 at 1:00pm EST
How does it feel to be considered the “godfather” of heavy metal?
Old! (laughs)… No, it’s fantastic. It has taken a lot of years, but it’s
great. It’s a nice thing to accept.
What got you interested in music and does music run in your family?
I started playing music when I was younger. My father played an
accordion, and I used to have an accordion as well so I started to play
that. But I always wanted a set of drums. My parents wouldn’t let me
have any, so I sort of went to guitar and I really enjoyed it. But what
got me interested was watching and listening to the old Rock and Roll
and also a band called The Shadows, which were an instrumental band in
England. They were great and the only instrumental guitar band in England.
Who are your early influences and who inspires you now to play?
Again, The Shadows were a very early influence and Django Reinhardt who
I really admired. I really loved his playing along with a lot of the old
Blues players really, which I always listened to. Everything stems from
that old Blues. I saw a band to be honest, called Nightwish, and I
really liked them. I liked their sound and arrangements and stuff.
That’s one of the newer bands. I thought they were outstanding and very
entertaining.
Who’s your all-time favorite guitarist and why?
As a kid growing up, it was Hank Marvin from The Shadows and from that
it went on to Django Reinhardt and then onto Joe Pass. I liked him a
lot. His playing was great. The more rock guitar players… Jeff Beck of
course.
What brought you to Gibson guitars?
Many years ago when we (Black Sabbath) were doing the first album,
because it was difficult for me being left-handed and I could never find
any left-handed guitars in England. I didn’t have the money anyway when
we first formed this lineup. But the guitar I always wanted was a Fender
Strat at that time. I managed to save up, find and buy a left-handed
Strat. It was great and I had it for a long time. I also managed to buy
a second guitar, which was a Gibson SG, but it was a right-handed one
and I managed to find the guy, and I don’t know how, who was
right-handed and used a left-handed SG. I found out where he lived and
we just swapped so then I had a left-handed SG. It was brilliant! But
what made me start using it was when we went to record the first album,
the “Black Sabbath” album and I played Wicked World on the Strat and the
pick-ups failed in the session, so I had this Gibson SG sitting there as
my spare guitar, so I had to do the album with that. Once I recorded the
album with it… well, that was it… I just stuck with the SG. That was the
sound and it went on from there really.
What tuning do you prefer?
I like a semi-tune down (1/2 step) which is good for me, but over the
years and in the early days, I tried several different tunings, 3
semi-tunes (C tuning), you know, just to get a different sound and
different feel. But I prefer the semi-tune down.
What settings do you dial in on your amp? Do you scoop the mids? More
preamp or post gain?
My signature Laney amps are very basic; I didn’t want hundreds of
controls on them. The preamp is on a half or so, and the master at full
volume, no mids and very simple. Just a bunch of amps and cabinets
running at one time, and of course, very loud.
Do you use earplugs or in-ear monitor systems live?
Not at all, it’s a bit of a fault really, a shame… when we first
started, all that didn’t come into play, you didn’t think of earplugs or
any of that. We sort of regret it now, well I do, and it affected my
hearing over the years. I have some plugs now, but to be honest I never
wear them. However, when we did Ozzfest with Ozzy, I had to put one in
one ear because Ozzy is always right by the monitors and it was pretty
loud. Certainly when Ozzy screams, it sort of goes right through you
(laughs).
What current gear from Zoom have you been really digging on lately?
I love the Zoom H2. It has been really REALLY useful, and the H4 as well
to be honest. I love the size of them both to carry around. They are
brilliant to get ideas. And both are great song-writing tools.
Have you been using the H2 or the H4 to write new songs for the upcoming
Heaven and Hell record? If so, how has it helped the writing process as
a guitarist and as a songwriter?
Absolutely! It’s running all the time! It’s actually sitting in there
while we’re playing. I certainly don’t want to miss anything I play. And
I don’t want to miss anything the guys are playing. Mike Clement, my
guitar tech, usually leaves it running while we’re writing and coming up
with ideas. It captures everything you’re doing. It is so good at
picking up from a distance. It has been extremely useful!
Are you using any other Zoom gear?
At home in England, I have the HD16CD and the G2 guitar effects pedal. I
use them to write in my studio and to get ideas. They’re great to plug
in direct and just record and play.
Does your live rig differ from what you use in the studio?
It is quite different. For the stage rig, I use a Pete Cornish pedal
board and, of course, a lot of amps, which goes through a rack of
various stuff like a delay and chorus. But I don’t really use much in
the studio. At the moment, I just go in straight. But I do use a chorus
and octivider. I don’t carry the Pete Cornish board around as I am
currently in L.A. writing. It is too much to bring over here. I do use
pedals and I will use them on the album. At the moment, we’re just in
the writing mode so it’s just putting the ideas down. When it comes to
recording, I will be using a variety of stuff.
What’s your writing process like? Does it differ depending on your
collaborators?
Yah, I generally come up with the riff first and we build it from there…
if that’s suitable for Ronnie… make a chorus and just build the song up.
We change it around and try different things to experiment.
Was it the same way writing with Ozzy or in the past with Ronnie?
In a way, I suppose. Back then we just jammed and played loud (laughs).
Now, it’s in a control room either at my house in England or Ronnie’s
house. At the moment we’re at Ronnie’s house… in L.A., sitting in the
control room (Geezer, myself and Ronnie) coming up with the ideas. It’s
a bit different. It’s better like this, you can hone in more on what
you’re doing. We seem to get more done this way.
On the last Heaven and Hell tour what was your favorite song to play?
Well, I love them all. Heaven and Hell was great. I actually like
playing “Lonely is the Word.” We don’t do that one much, but I really
enjoy playing that as well.
I notice there’s a lot more lead work and improvising with Heaven and
Hell than there was with Ozzy. What is your take on that?
Absolutely. It’s been great. To me, that’s what we’re all about. And we
always used to do that with the original Sabbath in the old days. We
would just jam. But unfortunately, it got too regimental towards the
last tours, doing the Ozzfests and everything. You couldn’t improvise
that much. It more or less became straight, one song after another
because of the time factor and everything else. With Heaven and Hell, it
allows more looseness. You can jam around and try different ideas, make
something up on any given night, which is great and I like that. It
keeps you more stimulated.
What’s your all-time favorite song to play?
Ohhh wow (laughs)… I got a lot… I really enjoy playing all of them. It’s
not the fact of “I don’t like playing this.” I really do like playing
all the songs. “Into the Void”, “Iron man”, up to the “Heaven and Hell”
stuff and “Mob Rules”. I really couldn’t say a real favorite. I just
enjoy doing them.
Speaking of Iron Man, how do you feel about the song being featured in
the new Iron Man movie with Robert Downey Jr.?
Good! Great in fact… We’re going to the premiere tonight. I’m looking
forward to seeing that.
Are there any songs that you’ve written and recorded and now cringe at
in hindsight?
Well, I think you always get that. If you didn’t get that, you probably
wouldn’t be progressing. The way the industry changes, the way the
gadgets change, going from tape to computers. Effect pedals are
changing. Everything is changing. There’s always something better around
the corner and you say “Oh god, I could have got a better drum sound” or
“I could have got a better guitar sound” but that’s always going to be
the way. And you think later on “Oh I could have done that better.”
That’s the way it is and you have to accept it for that time, the way
you did it.
Who has been your favorite collaborator over the years?
Geezer is really great to work with. Ronnie is always great as well.
It’s great to bounce ideas off of them both. It has been really good. We
can just swap ideas. Geezer can say “I like that” or Ronnie will go “I
like that”… you need that you know, otherwise you would be sitting on
your own playing stuff thinking “well, do I like that” or “is that
good?” it’s nice to have a response from somebody. The chemistry between
myself, Ronnie and Geezer is great. We started off at my house in
England and Ronnie came over and we wrote some ideas there, which are
really good. And now we’re here, in L.A. at Ronnie’s and it’s been great
as well. Geezer has been involved. I am really pleased with the stuff we
have been coming up with.
When is a potential date for everyone to hear the new Heaven and Hell
music?
Well, we really haven’t put a time on it. We will be going on tour in
August. We’re really looking forward to that. It’ll be nice because
we’re doing the tour together with Judas Priest, who are old friends of
ours and of course Motorhead. After the tour, that’s when we’ll probably
be thinking of heading into the studio.
If you could assemble a dream band of any artists living or not, who
would be in your super-group?
I have always liked, and I don’t know why, but Tom Jones (laughs), I
always wanted to do something with him. I just like his voice. He has a
great voice. But I think I played in a lot of my dream bands. I played
with people who I wanted to play with. In fact, even my solo album was a
good thing for me because I had different singers and musicians. It was
interesting to do, with so many different people. It was very enjoyable.
After Ozzy went solo he’s had a number of guitarists cover your songs.
Do you have any memories of your first time hearing Randy Rhoads, Jake
E. Lee or Zakk Wylde playing your compositions and solos in their own
styles?
I remember hearing bits… but to be really honest, I can’t remember it
now. I haven’t heard them in so many years. But no, I didn’t mind them
playing what I did. I mean, I noticed on a couple of things, they
weren’t right. But as a player you will notice that. I think I remember
one now, hearing Brad Gillis playing the riff wrong (laughs), but there
we go (laughs)…
How do you feel about the current state of rock guitar?
I don’t really think anything about it. I just do my thing and go on.
There are probably some great players out there.
Do you think the video games Guitar Hero and Rock Band, are taking away
from kids learning to play guitar or a real instrument? Or do you think
it could help them pick up an instrument and play for real?
It’s probably a bit of fun. But I don’t know if it helps. I wouldn’t
know, and to be perfectly honest, I never tried it myself (laughs)… My
feeling is, if you want to play a song properly, I would play it for
real instead of in a game. I would sit down and learn how to play it.
There is no quick way, you just gotta do it.
Are there any new artists flying the metal flag that you’re a fan of?
No, I can’t really say. There are so many good players out there. I
still prefer the old classic style players. Jeff Beck is one of them. I
went to see Jeff in London when he played. He is great! Clapton got up
and played as well. But that is the sort of… real players you know.
There are shredders or whatever you want to call them… great, great
players. But I still like the old feeling, classic style playing.
Are there any CDs in your collection that would surprise your average fan?
(Laughs repeatedly…) Tom Jones! He has a great voice! I like to listen
to a lot of different things. I like to play off-the-wall stuff that
people wouldn’t expect. I guess you could say my record collection is
like that as well.
After many years of touring, what’s the most bizarre experience you’ve
had?
Ohhhh God, there are so many. I don’t even think of them now. If you
start trying to name them… I’m doing a book at the moment and you have
to recall some of this stuff. But there are so many things and
experiences; it’s hard to even believe yourself sometimes. You think,
“Ohhh did that happen”… some weird things over the years.
When you’re not playing guitar what are your interests?
I like to be at home and go out to dinner, go to my friends’. A normal
life really… Go out with my wife and take the dogs for a walk. Stuff
like that. I like to do what everyone else does really.
You’ve been going strong for 40 years. What’s the secret for keeping it
all together for so long?
It’s the belief in it, wanting to do it, and enjoying it. I think the
time when I don’t enjoy it anymore will be when I don’t do it anymore.
At the moment, I am really enjoying it and it’s been really good and I
don’t want it to end. It has been great playing with the Ozzy lineup and
it has been great playing with the Dio lineup. I’ve been fortunate to do
the two, which has been just marvelous. I think that is the ultimate
kind of thing for me.
What have been the biggest changes you’ve seen in the music industry
over the years?
Well, I think the computer age… using Pro Tools has been a real help in
a lot of ways. But in other ways, you sort of miss the old style of
recording. I like the technology to a point. If you can use it like
that, I think it’s really helpful. The change is certainly about how
quick you can do things now and having the availability of things. If
you wanted to get a sound years ago, you had to make it. Now, it’s there
on the computer. You know, what I found strange… in L.A., we went down
to try and find a record store, and we couldn’t find one. Tower Records,
gone. Virgin Mega Store, gone. Where the hell did it go? We ended up
going to Borders to find a bloody DVD. It’s peculiar. I just didn’t know
where to go. It is very sad and becoming a real shock that a lot of
record stores are going out of business. The whole business has changed
as far as the record label is concerned as well. Who would have thought
many years ago that record labels would be going out of business?
It seems that Rhino Records, your current label, is one of the few that
still does it right. What are your thoughts on them?
Oh, they’re great… absolutely great. I love what they do. The work and
the belief they put into it. They really do believe in what they do and
it’s brilliant.
What’s the one most im****tant thing you’ve learned from your time as a
touring and recording artist?
Wow (laughs)… that is a difficult one. I don’t know… probably patience.
Any advice for younger musicians that are just getting started?
You just gotta believe in what you’re doing and stick to it and really
work at what you want. People always think they’re going to buy a guitar
and suddenly be famous. But that’s not it. You really gotta work hard at
it and believe in what you’re doing. If you’re lucky enough to be able
to move on, then that’s brilliant. But it is hard and it’s never gonna
be easy. You got to practice and believe in what you’re doing.
--
--Scot
www.ScotClayton.org
www.SMCProductions.org
www.CraigGoldy.org
www.CraigGoldy.com
www.TonyIommi.org
In the 20th Century:
Governments murdered four times as many civilians as were killed in all
the international and domestic wars combined.
Governments murdered millions more people than were killed by common
criminals.
How could governments kill so many people? The governments had the power
- and the people, the victims, were unable to resist. The victims were
unarmed.
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