Re: Quicky about naming a chord

On Mar 17, 1:12 pm, "Tom K." <tkor...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "LJS" <ljsche...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
news:2a02ab80-321f-49c3-812e-81d08b70ef09@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > On Mar 17, 9:28 am, "David Webber" <d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > wrote:
> >> "Tom K." <tkor...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
> >>news:zJednXS6fKJphEHanZ2dnUVZ_tuonZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >> > Possibly, Steve - but since the chord seems to have more of a jazz
than
> >> > classical heritage, don't you think it should have a new world
name?
> >> > So I
> >> > respectfully submit either Cajun +6 or Quebecois 6th....
>
> >> Creole not Cajun.   Rule no 1 of survival, give or take hurricanes,
in
> >> New
> >> Orleans is to go for Creole music and Cajun cuisine - not the other
way
> >> round :-)
>
> >> Dave
> >> --
> >> David Webber
> >> Author of 'Mozart the Music Processor'http://www.mozart.co.uk
> >> For discussion/sup****t
> >> seehttp://www.mozart.co.uk/mozartists/mailinglist.htm
>
> > Cajun or Zydeco music are both genres of music in this area. (both are
> > really west of New Orleans in areas of origin)  Creole refers to a
> > cuisine and to a mixture of native ethnic groups that has has various
> > subtleties over the years. Some of the early musicians to play Jazz
> > were Creole, but I have yet to hear or read about the term "Creole
> > Music". Would you care to tell me where you ran across this term and
> > what is means?
> > LJS
>
> While "Creole Music" is quite broad, the Creole art songs might be a
> starting point.  You might check out Camille Nickerson who was the piano
> professor of one of my theory instructors:
>
> http://www.darryltaylor.com/alliance/nickerson.bio.html
>
> And for examples of the songs:
>
> https://urresearch.rochester.edu/retrieve/7243/39087011972850.pdf
>
> IIRC,  "Creole" may refer to either Louisiana or Haitian French origin.
>
> Tom K.
> Tom K.

Thanks Tom,
I knew you would have some basis for that statement. I asked about the
term with some friends and they laughed. I know the only connection
that I could come up with was a group that I played with years ago
that backed up a Voo Doo priestess in her s**** dancing rituals. She
was Haitian. VooDoo is the only Haitian (maybe Creole) culture that I
have encountered in New Orleans although because of the Voo Doo thing,
it would not be spoken of in all circles.

I looked a bit at your links and saw that this was actually composed
art songs that were based on (probably) Haitian folk songs or other
folk songs that were known to certain members of the "Creole"
community at that time. I know that Europeans have a different way of
looking at things and I know that you had no ill intentions of calling
this "Creole Music". In our culture this would on very shaky ground in
some Creole social circles and may very well be taken as a racial
slur. I know that is not your intention.

Further research turned up Creole Music as being a forerunner of
Zydeco. They referred to it in the past tense and stated that there
was no performance of this music any more. As I went into this
article, I noticed some other statements that were a bit off, or at
least referred to a very small part of the culture and passed it off
as mainstream. There is a lot of this pseudo history that comes from
some of the 'researchers' that are looking for a reason to come down
here to eat, drink and party.

They referred to the Cajun music as being the white folk and the
Creole music being the poor black people's living in shacks and
sharing the same lifestyles as the Cajuns!. like I said, this may be
true in some isolated cases in Southwest Louisiana, but doesn't really
fit with the whole picture.

The Acadiens came down around 1760 or so when the British ran them out
of Canada. They settled in Southwestern La and was not  a part of the
Creole culture to any real extent. They had their own culture that was
not American nor was it the New Orleans Creole culture. They brought
their French language and culture with them. The Blacks in that area
would have been slaves at one time. They were farmers and the Cajuns
trapped and fished and lived of the land. Cajuns lived in the swamps
and bayous and the Blacks of that area lived on farmland. There may
have been interrelating and other merging of the peoples, but not so
much as one might think.

Yes, I believe that there is a Creole culture in Haiti. I don't know
how much that culture has to do with the New Orleans culture. Some, of
course, but the original word "Creole" in New Orleans as I have
learned over the years referred to the inhabitants of New Orleans that
were native to the city at the time that we were purchased by the
United States. This included Native Americans, French, Spanish,
Acadiens  and any and all mixtures of the people that were living
here. This term basically meant that they were NOT Americans. There
was the Creole sector of the city which is now referred to as downtown
and the American sector of the city. The Americans created the
American Sector and this is now what is referred to as Uptown. The
Creoles were families of a higher social and economic level and became
more of an elitist class that still holds this position today.

In the city, "Creole" became to mean more of the mixture of Black,
Spanish and French and was not to be confused with the descendants
slaves. They were the Downtown Society and the Americans were the
Uptown Society and the Black descendants of slavery was just that.

I could go on, but this is surely more than is necessary.  Thank you
for the information. I know that you did not mean anything derogatory
to our culture or history here. In the interest of friend****p,
however, I would like to point out a few things if you come to visit
our area.

Both Cajun Cuisine and Creole Cuisine are extremely good. They are
also very different. It is harder to fine Creole Cuisine, but when you
do (Tujagues is an excellent restaurant that has been serving Creole
food for over 150 years.) it is worth the experience.

Cajun music is traditionally a bit more 'raw' or more authentic folk
music although with the outside interest and the music industry, it is
being cleaned up (maybe too much) This was historically identified as
needing to have an accordion, a fiddle, a wash board and a triangle.

Zydeco was often identified as New Orleans R&B with French Lyrics.

And be careful how you use (better not to use it at all!) the term
Creole Music, what you say about it and who you say it to. If you must
use the term, be SURE that you know "where you got your shoes" and how
to spell your name! (this will save you some money when you are
confronted with the typical tourist hustle.

Thanks for the info. I enjoy seeing how people on the outside view our
culture. There was a TV series called "Frank's Place" staring Tim Reed
that ran for only one season. Each episode went into a different
aspect of our culture relative to the Creole aspect. (Tim Reed was
Frank and he was from Boston but inherited a Creole restaurant from
his father and in the series he has to adjust from the Black culture
and society of Boston to the Creole Society of New Orleans) It was one
of the best do***entaries on this subject that I have ever seen. We
had it taped, but, alas, we lost it to Katrina. If you or anyone
happens to find it, please send me information and enjoy it. It is
very well done.

LJS