On Apr 3, 4:52 am, Danny Schorr <.@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:36:36 -0700 (PDT), LJS <ljsche...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> >After discussions, there are usually a few questions that still remain
> >unanswered. Often they involve terms or concepts that seem to be
> >viewed differently by various members of the discussion group. These
> >different uses definitions of terms and concepts often prove to be
> >counterproductive and time consuming. I hope that answering these
> >Unanswered Questions may help to provide us with more productive
> >discussions and a better understanding of music as well as of each
> >other.
>
> >I would like to start with a term that was used as an example in a
> >recent post: Modal Interchange, or Modal Borrowing or Exchange. (In
> >this case, even the term seemed to be in question as well as the
> >meaning. Both the Pujol Etude and the Beethoven Sonata #23 were given
> >as examples of this term although they seem to be, IMO, very different
> >as I understand this term.
>
> >In my research, I could not find Modal Borrowing but did find the term
> >"chords have been 'borrowed' from the parallel minor" used in a
> >definition of "Modal Interchange" so I will start there.
>
> >***
> >Dolmetsch
> >Modal Interchange
> >Parallel major and minor keys, e.g. C major and C minor, which share
> >the same key note contrast with relative major and minor keys, e.g. C
> >major and A minor, which share the same key signature. In classical
> >music theory, the diatonic major and minor scales and the harmonies
> >associated with them are called the major and minor modes which should
> >not be confused with the Greek, jazz or church modes, Ionian, Dorian,
> >Phrygian,etc., mentioned in an earlier section.
> >By drawing chords from both related major and minor keys we get what
> >is called Modal Interchange. We can use this idea to analyse chords
> >where the piece is in a major key and minor chords have been
> >'borrowed' from the parallel minor, Alternatively with a piece in a
> >minor key we may find chords 'borrowed' from the parallel major. Using
> >our ears we can usually distinguish between the two cases. ***
> ><http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory31.htm#modalchange>
>
> >Questions: Is this a good definition of the term as used in this
> >discussion and how does it apply in both the examples? Which specific
> >chords do you see to be examples if Modal Interchange in the two
> >examples above?
> >LJS
>
> I'm in the process of typing up my analysis of the Pujol etude. None of
the
> chords arise from modal interchange.
>
> I'd use Modal interchange usually to account for, among other things,
minor
> iv in major. You see that often in rock and pop, even blues. For
instance:
>
> "In My Life" -Beatles
>
> Key A:
> D Dm A
> In my life/ I've loved them all
>
> " Wake Me When September Ends" - Green Day
> Key G
>
> C C minor
> wake me up/ when September
> G
> ends
>
> Of course there are tons of other examples, and it happens in all genres
of
> music. Even classical! ;-) But it's 4 am here, and other instances
aren't
> exactly rolling off the tip of my brain at the moment.
>
> Danny
I agree with your look at the Pujol from my point of view. However,
there may be a fine point that would justify another position. As I
understand the Flamenco Phrygian, all the uses of the notes and chords
seem to be in that particular mode. I can see, however, that the
definition of the Flamenco Phrygian may include the concept of
borrowing the Tonic and the Dominant chords from the Parallel Major
Key. In this light, I can see the argument for some modal interchange,
but only as Major Chords being borrowed to create the Flamenco
Phrygian and not the whole melody and the other chords as being
borrowed from F#major. That is just not what this piece is about!. BUT
having said that the borrowing may be part of the Flamenco Phrygian
Mode, one may have to accept that the Major Dominant chord is Modal
borrowing in the Harmonic and Ascending form of the Melodic Minor, and
I don't think that that particular Pig will fly.
It didn't occur to me that there were so many examples of the borrowed
iv chord in the modern pop music (I guess Green Day is pop. I think
that they are a very musical group and have actually been to one of
their concerts :-). I should have as we use it in our Rhythm and blues
down here. There is a common progression I -- 7 IV iv I V7 I that is
a standard phrase in many tunes. I think that this would qualify as a
use of Modal Borrowing or Interchange. Isn't there something like this
is Julia by the Beatles, or am I mis remembering? I would think that
these borrowings are related to the ones that would be in some art
songs and are there to emphasize an emotion expressed in the song.
If you have the inclination, and after you finish your Pujol analysis,
I would like to see if you can give an opinion on the Beethoven. Here,
I think that it may be serving another function. There is no text,
although that does not rule out emotional considerations, that would
call for borrowing, but I think he uses it for pure musical
considerations and this is a particular use of Modal Interchange that
I hope to explore. If what I am starting to see turns out to be true,
it may have more uses in analysis then I have seen up to this point!
There was always a pesky little detail in some Beethoven and other
composers that liked to develop various distantly related keys and
this could be the "key" (no pun intended) to having a nice little knot
to tie the ends together.
If you get a chance, look at the first theme in C and tell me what you
think.
Thanks,
LJS
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