Re: Unanswered Question #1

"David Webber" <dave@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:ft9sfv$5j$1$8302bc10@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "LJS" <ljschenck@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
> news:b158c822-d0d7-4d93-9d8c-9a0006999698@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> Yes, the Picardy third or Tierce de Picardie does seem to be an
> example. It is a chord that borrows from the Major Mode.<
>
> It introduces a major third.  In that it was used in pieces in Dorian 
> mode, before the major/minior prominance we are now used to, it cannot 
> really be said to "borrow from the major mode".    That is a post-hoc 
> construction.
>
> Dave

Not really David. Or at least let's say while the term for Tierce de 
Picardie may have existed in the modal era, in the Tonal era, the concept
of 
borrowing limited itself to the Parallel Major and Minor Modes (modes in 
this case meaning versions) of a key. So the major third in a minor tonic,

is borrowed from the parallel Major, not from some other "mode". Likewise,

in minor, we could see raised 6 as coming fom a Dorian influence, it is 
instead not to be considered borrowed at all, but simply part of the minor

system.

Now, interestingly, certainly there's got to be some holdover of modal 
concepts - b2 from Phrygian is a good example. Furthermore, the chorale 
harmonizations of modal melodies from Bach seem to show a greater
influence 
of modality than many other tonal works. But on the whole, the Tonal
system 
limited itself to two modes - Major and minor, and Secondary keys - so all

borrowing comes from those elements. Mozart was very unlikely thinking
that 
#4 was coming from Lydian - he was more likely thinking it was coming from

the key of the dominant.  So I'd say any tonal composer, would likely be 
thinking "I'm borrowing this chord from the Major mode" rather than
thinking 
it was coming from any other mode, though, the principle is certainly akin

to the earlier principle in modality.

Best,
Steve