Re: Unanswered Question #1

"Steve Latham" <llatham@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:8Q5Kj.4932$Ah1.437@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "David Webber" <dave@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
> news:ft9sfv$5j$1$8302bc10@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> It introduces a major third.  In that it was used in pieces in Dorian 
>> mode, before the major/minior prominance we are now used to, it cannot 
>> really be said to "borrow from the major mode".    That is a post-hoc 
>> construction.
>>
>> Dave
>
> Not really David. Or at least let's say while the term for Tierce de 
> Picardie may have existed in the modal era, in the Tonal era, the
concept 
> of borrowing limited itself to the Parallel Major and Minor Modes (modes

> in this case meaning versions) of a key. So the major third in a minor 
> tonic, is borrowed from the parallel Major, not from some other "mode". 
> ...

I am not particularly concerned with the term the term "Tierce de
Picardie" 
itself.     (And I hope I haven't caused confusion by using what appears
to 
me to be the British English "Tierce de Picardie" instead of the American 
"Picardy Third"!   - It seems to be like Cor Anglais vs English Horn in
this 
respect.)    As I undersand it, the origins of the *term* are somewhat 
obscure.

However the actual device was in use in Dorian mode  (where I have played 
examples) and maybe Phrygian (though I haven't got one to hand) in the era

of Musica Ficta.   To be clear - I wasn't suggesting that this was in any 
sense "borrowing" from another mode: they just did it cos it felt right, 
just like the other manifestations of musica ficta.

It therefore seems obvious to me that as the era of major/minor gradually 
took over, the use of it in minor pieces was not so much borrowing from
the 
major mode but borrowing from history - it sounded right because it had 
sounded right in the past.

Dave
-- 
David Webber
Author of 'Mozart the Music Processor'
http://www.mozart.co.uk
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