Re: Melodies move by step in any form of music?

On May 31, 10:20 am, "David Webber" <d...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> "LJS" <ljsche...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
news:412c9eb4-4d5d-4dd3-b632-7d226aaea1a4@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >> Lots of composers claim to have been "influenced by" jazz,  and then
go
> >> on
> >> to remove all the vitality of jazz from the music in their own
> >> compositions.
> >> Milhaud is a classic example.  At least Berstein has a produced very
> >> vital
> >> musical in West Side Story.
>
> > I didn't say anything about Milhaud! So I guess this is a vote for
> > there being some jazz influence in this "vital musical"
>
> With logic like that I'm not surprised you don't understand what i'm
saying.
>
> > I see, unlike composed jazz pieces that are to be played like written.
> > As many big band jazz charts are.
>
> ????
>
> I play big band charts all the time.   I can't remember one which is
played
> exactly as written.   In almost all of them the played note durations
are
> nothing like as written, and even where the note durations are close to
what
> is written, there are one or more chunks labelled "solo" where members
of
> the band have to play something of their own invention.
>
> I have also played "West Side Story" as written, as people expected it
to
> sound, and as directed by the MD.   It is not jazz.
>
> >> > Personally, I hear it as an attempt to use some
> >> > jazz harmony and voicing in a revolutionary new approach to a very
old
> >> > art form based on a very old story.
>
> >> Certainly a new style of musical, but I'm wary of terms which can't
be
> >> adequately defined like "jazz harmony".   Jazz has no harmonies whch
are
> >> not
> >> also present in non-jazz music.   And jazz can be played with very
simple
> >> harmonies indeed.
>
> > So this is another vote for a jazz influence? I don't see any other
> > way to relate this to my post.
>
> No it is astatement that your "attempt to use some jazz harmony" is a
> meaningless assertion, and theat the harmonies in question are not
> restricted to jazz.   There is a "latin" influence but that does not
mean a
> "jazz influence".
>
> >> "attribute partly"   As I have said I do not draw the same degree of
> >> racial
> >> distinction which you insist on, and the evidence all suggests that
the
> >> people involved didn't either (except between whites and non-whites
which
> >> was enshrined both in law and custom).
>
> > Actually, if you understood what you are saying and have said in the
> > past you would realize just how racial your comments are.
>
> ROFL!
>
> > I have been
> > polite and only pointed out at one time that you should be careful of
> > who you would say those kinds of tings to in New Orleans.
>
> I had no problems discussing jazz in New Orleans, on either of my
visits.
>
> > Your opinions in the past
> > on this subject also seemed to ignore the White culture that was part
> > of the Jazz development as well.
>
> I can see you understood absolutely nothing of what I said.
>
> > Many outsiders simply can not
> > understand the complicated mix of peoples that make up our unique city
> > and you, like it or not, fall into this category....
>
> I'm afraid that is utterly pathetic.    Just go back to your idea that
they
> were playing jazz before the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, live in your
own
> fictional world, and please don't trouble those of us who know something
> about it, with any more of your ridiculous accusations.
>
> Dave
> --
> David Webber
> Author of 'Mozart the Music Processor'http://www.mozart.co.uk
> For discussion/sup****t
seehttp://www.mozart.co.uk/mozartists/mailinglist.htm

Two visits to New Orleans and you are an expert! I don't even know if
Gunter Schuller even visited New Orleans. I made not comments that
Jazz was in full bloom in 1803. I stated that the roots were there and
that Creoles had little or nothing to do with them. It was you that
stated that it magically appeared as a creation by the Creole
musicians around 1915 when they were first recorded! I can assure you
that this music, even in the form that impressed you so much, was not
a "spur of the moment" thing. These bands had been doing this same
thing in Storyville years before and if it had not spread to other
parts of the country by means that I mentioned, there would have not
been the interest even then to prompt the early record producers to
even record this music. You have a very "interesting" view of how
things like this happen.
LJS