Re: 7b5, or 7#11?

On Jun 21, 10:42 pm, "Steve Latham" <llat...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> C E Gb Bb
>
> C E Bb F#
>
> See the problem?
>
> Are these normally named by voicing in much the same way that "add2" and
> "add 9" are?
>
> C add 2  C D E G
> C add 9  C E G D
>
> ????
>
> Steve

To amend my original post.

After sleeping on your question, (fortunately it was not very lumpy!)
I realized that I missed an aspect of your question that may be of
use. I think it was the "See the problem" part that crated the
rethink.

Yes, I can see that there is a problem if you are using the Alpha
Chord Description and then the Arabic numeral modifiers. Its that Gb
or F# thing. The question that needs to be asked is: "What is the
context of this horizontal structure?"

If you have played this structure out of context, like discovered that
you were playing this sound on the guitar and are trying to decide
what kind of chord it is or if you ran across it on the piano, both
being out of context and simply a horizontal structure, either of your
four types of solutions are certainly quite adequate.

I realized that when I said that the musicians would generally make
music out of it no matter how you wrote it was incomplete and there in
lies the answer. Where does the chord go? Where did it come from in
the progression, The function of the chord or at least the specific
note will determine this. Assign a Roman Numeral to the C and you will
most likely have your answer.

If it is a I it may be a I 7 #11 but if it is a V it may be a V7 b5 or
variations of these names. This is, of course, only a random example.
If you are using this structure in a progression, it would be easier
to give it the proper name if we could see the part writing
implications of the progression. But, as I am sure that you know may
have not recalled in this context of a single chord,  the "#"ed note
resolves up and the "b"ed note resolves down. After that you are only
concerned with the function of the other tones in the structure.  F#
A# C E produces additional possibilities for this structure. Standing
by itself it will take on the sound of where the listener expects it
to resolve. The actual resolution of the chord is the determining
factor as to how it should be spelled.

Going back to a previous thread, this is a good example of why
analysis by a more progressive use of the RN notation is more relevant
as compared to an Alpha notation. The Alpha notation tends to lead the
mind to an isolated structure whereas the RN notation tells us the
function of the chord and thus the spelling will become obvious. If
the chord is in a non functional context or an isolated structure,
then as I have said earlier, there is no problem. All of your examples
will spell the chord correctly as to the pitches involved as in these
cases, enharmonic spellings don't seem to be relevant.

Sorry for the necessity of the second post, it was late. I should have
noticed this aspect the first time.

LJS>