On Jul 17, 11:47 am, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
<bornfeldm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> tonydecap...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> > On Jul 17, 11:47 am, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
> > <bornfeldm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> Danny Schorr wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:29:46 -0700, "Chickenhead"
> >>> <kuNOrtSPAMshapTHANK...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >>>> Was it Tommy Tedesco who said "no one ever got paid for playing
theories?"
> >>>> I know I never have.
> >>> Tell it to Leonard Bernstein.
> >>> Danny
> >> I walked over to Bernstein's gravesite (a short walk from my
home) and
> >> asked. Sadly, no answer came.
> >> This is a bit of a silly argument. Maybe someone can help me
out with
> >> the source of the quote (I'm thinking it may have been Miles Davis)
who
> >> said something to the effect of "study and learn all your theory,
then
> >> forget about it and just blow".
> >> I don't think this is a put down of theory at all. I think
it means
> >> that a musician has to internalize it. Perhaps in a through-composed
> >> piece there may be more conscious considerations of theory than there
is
> >> for a jazz musician improvising on the spot. But if I had to guess,
> >> Bernstein wasn't thinking about temperament, scale forms, or rhythmic
> >> theory when he wrote "West Side Story" any more than I have to think
> >> about the placement of my tongue in my mouth when I have to pronounce
> >> the letter "t".
> >> IOW, I think you're arguing about nothing but semantics.
>
> >> Steve
>
> >> --
> >> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDShttp://www.dentaltwins.com
> >> Brooklyn, NY
> >> 718-258-5001
>
> > The quote was attributed to Bird who had taken more liberties in it's
> > utterance. Yes and true, a 't' can be easily misunderstood for a 'd',
> > at least inside the mouth where the tongue dwells. The theory would
> > adjust for that (eventually).
>
> > -TD
>
> Thanks for the correct attribution. I suppose it wasn't a great
> analogy, but you get the idea.
> My eyes tend to glaze over on the theory threads since my
knowledge is
> minimal, but I remember Joey once talking about how some of the
> nomenclature of chords in harmonic context differs in classical and jazz
> theory usage, so some of the confusion is language. I'm not sure how
> jazz theory is distinct, but I don't doubt that it can be in certain
> areas. I would expect the same if one were looking at eastern music,
> microtonal music, etc.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDShttp://www.dentaltwins.com
> Brooklyn, NY
> 718-258-5001
Only if the Jazz was based on micro tonal music etc. But even in this
case, Music Theory can handle micro tonal as well. The point is that
by its very nature, the theory concept is used only for analysis and
description and organization. Music Theory explains Jazz, Classical,
Micro tonal, Serial, Chance, Romantic, Gregorian Chant, Whales
singing, Electronic music, etc. ALL of music is by, its very nature,
able to be explained and this explanation is a result of analysis and
this is what Music Theory is.
All of the genres of music are only known to be genres because they
were compared, organized by their elements, sorted out and then put in
with similar compositions and these groups became "Jazz", "Classical",
"Microtonal" etc. No genre uses all the aspects of Music Theory. Each
Genre used only those elements that apply. There is no separate "Jazz
Theory" any more than there is a separate "Classical Theory". What
people are saying is theory is only a collection of conventions. Jazz
itself, has many sub genres and each has its own set of conventions.
Jazz from 1915 is different from the music played in the Be-Bop area
and from what is happening with the Miles Davis school and with what
is emerging today. Jazz musicians in this group, as well as other
places, seem to have this idea that they are so different from the
broader sense of Classical music (which in itself is a poor choice of
terms) when in fact, it is only their lack of perception of the depth
of "composed music" in the so called "classical" world of music. This
is why you don't see any examples of all this music that is so
different that it can't be accounted for by Music Theory. The fact is,
it certainly can and thus there are no examples that are forthcoming.
LJS
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