Re: Chord Function?

On Jul 30, 4:43 pm, j_nsc...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
> On Jul 30, 2:02 pm, tonydecap...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 30, 12:42 pm, "Steve Latham" <llat...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > <tonydecap...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
> >
>news:dcbfffae-5c1b-47b7-a15c-f97cc822ec3c@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > > OK man, basic "major blues form" is:
>
> > > > Tonic region: C7 / F7 / C7 / G-7 C7/ then sub-dominant region: F7
/
> > > > F#dim7 / C7 / A7 / to dominant region: G7 or D-7 / F7 or G7 / to
tonic
> > > > region C7 / G7 //  We usually replace returning to tonic region
with a
> > > > turnaround: C9 Eb9 / D9 Db9//
>
> > > That's a "jazz blues" form.
>
> > > A Basic blues form is far more basic than that:
>
> > > I - I - I - I
> > > IV - IV - I - I
> > > V - V - I - I
>
> > > I'm sure you know this, and it's simply not clear which of us is
discussing
> > > which form.
>
> > > Best,
> > > Steve
>
> > Ahhh, OK, I see. Well, you have sketched out a very primitive blues,
> > and only one type of very primitive blues. Still, it is unlikely that
> > such a primitive blues would be played "all vanilla" and no 7ths.
>
> I would say the use of plain triads is a hallmark of all the types of
> very primitive blues.
>
>  You
>
> > speak of what was played as blues from the 1910's to 1920s when the
> > art form was still in it's post-infant stages. Before that it was
> > pretty much one chord or, at best I to V or I to IV only.
>
> Although we know that some blues (a fairly small fraction) had only
> one or two chords as of the 1920s, I wouldn't say that less than three
> chords represents blues in its earliest stages. Folk songs (that
> weren't "blues") containing I, IV, and V were popular among rural
> "black" Southerners as of the 1890s, before blues songs were popular.
>
>  Most of
>
> > those recordings revealed bits of progressions, many deviations from
> > the standard form (later to be settled on)
>
> We don't have evidence that what you're calling the standard form
> arose later than any other form did, as far as blues songs are
> concerned. For instance, it seems quite possible that "Joe Turner" was
> using what you call the standard form before the fad for singing about
> having the "blues" as such existed.
>
>  and many ambiguous chords
>
> > added, while pertinent chords were deleted.
>
> > I am not certain what your question or motive is, but more than
> > likely, yes! CPP would address the I, IV, V triads that the primitive
> > blues thrived on. Mike C was not referring to your progression when he
> > mentioned blues. The 'sophisticationization' of the blues began to
> > take form via the early jazz composers.
>
> Separately from the spread of jazz across the country (which to a
> large extent was after the spread of blues), blues was also apparently
> made more harmonically sophisticated by non-jazz town musicians, along
> the lines of the Memphis Jug Band, for instance. Imo the use of 7ths
> in blues seems to have been partly popularized by town musicians who
> were already in the habit of using 7ths in gospel and began playing
> blues material.
>
> Lots of substitutions -- i.e., what we hear as normal in jazz guitar
> blues today -- mostly came in as a fad more about Charlie Parker's
> time than Kid Ory's time. There are some substitutions that sound
> obviously "authentic" to us, but weren't actually in fa****on yet as of
> the 1920s, including IV in the 10th measure and V in the 12th measure.
>
> Joseph Scott

That's OK, I simply do not agree with you. No blues do***entation in
1800s. In addition, I my subject was the blues and not when it began.
Steve and I were talking about two different subjects is all. Early
blues absolutely did begin with only three chords. What has transpired
here is the usual opiate of the tangent. I have worked with Big Joe
Turner, by the way.

-TD